These forums are in read-only mode. Please see this news post for more information.

New forums can be found here


Go Back   WowAce Forums > Addon Chat > Frameworks
Frameworks Framework Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-21-2007   #1
pb_ee1
Junior Member
 
pb_ee1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 53
Default Having several frameworks running at the same time

WARNING: I do not want a flame war here (even if I think it's nearly impossible to avoid it), I'm asking my questions on general frameworks, don't think about Ace, Dongle, Rock, or your dog's framework. Don't do it. Save the world, keep this thread clean.

Something has been bugging me for a few days now, and I'd like to have some explanations on this.

Everybody seems to agree that running several frameworks at the same time is not a problem, the user will not see the difference, bla bla bla... But hey, I was thinking a bit about how works a framework, and I'm surprised about this.

Running two frameworks means:
- Running two OnUpdate() managers at the same time.
- Possibly running two libraries that do the same thing but that runs on each framerwork separately.
- Having two configuration managers loaded (i.e. /slah, gui, ...)

So how the hell having two framerworks (or more!) would not change anything to the CPU and memory usage?

Thanks for your answers
pb_ee1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #2
Nickenyfiken
Hero Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 798
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_ee1
- Running two OnUpdate() managers at the same time.
- Possibly running two libraries that do the same thing but that runs on each framerwork separately.
- Having two configuration managers loaded (i.e. /slah, gui, ...)
How do you think it would be if you have 50 addons and each do that on their own?
Nickenyfiken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #3
ZealotOnAStick
Senior Member
 
ZealotOnAStick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 489
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

I don't know about the impact of multiple OnUpdate() managers/handlers. I can surmise that it'd be better to have three of them running, though, than to have 43 of them running with every addon handling it themselves instead. So, again, I dunno.

The library issue is something that's already something of an issue. ParserLib and Parser3 running at the same time, f'rinstance. Hopefully, there's be a lot more buying into the "framework agnostic" library approach, with things making use of LibStub, and this can, by and large, be avoided.

Multiple configuration managers I see as less of a problem. Consider Ace2 alone: AceConsole (/ commands), DewDrop (semi-gui dropdown menus), Waterfall (gui). Granted, they all can pull their info from AceOptions tables, but that's still, minimally for the large majority of Ace2 addons, at least 2 config methods each.

Gains in memory consumption should, theoretically, come mostly from the frame-work agnostic libraries approach. That's a really dodgy thing, though, it's more likely you'll end up with more memory used. If it's not a significant increase, however . . . I don't really care, and neither should most gamers with machines reasonably well equipped to really PLAY WoW. I'll defer on the CPU usage stuff to those far more versed than I.
__________________
ZealotOnAStick
ZealotOnAStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #4
FISKER_Q
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 73
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Now Ace2 and Rock both have /print? Now i'm sure they're probably similar, or without change at all, but how does that work for addons? If i used print in an addon, or another function will it correctly use the library you use or will it just take a random one?
FISKER_Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #5
OrionShock
Legendary Member
 
OrionShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,787
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_ee1
Running two frameworks means:
- Running two OnUpdate() managers at the same time.
- Possibly running two libraries that do the same thing but that runs on each framerwork separately.
- Having two configuration managers loaded (i.e. /slah, gui, ...)
I've got a very real answer for you as i run 3 base frameworks at a time on my UI.

My memory usage went down my 10mb, framerate went up by 10-15 (that is when i switched over to new versions).

and to take the example from Fisker, LibParser-4.0 has compatibility layers for the other 2 versions... just got to make sure that it loads first for addons that are older.
__________________
Author of GuildCraft, SickOfClickingDailies, CursorCooldown, Broken_LFD
WoWAce Addon List WoWInterface Addon List

"I was there in the beginning... and things were very different back then" --An Echo from a time before.
OrionShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #6
pb_ee1
Junior Member
 
pb_ee1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 53
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionShock
I've got a very real answer for you as i run 3 base frameworks at a time on my UI.

My memory usage went down my 10mb, framerate went up by 10-15 (that is when i switched over to new versions).

and to take the example from Fisker, LibParser-4.0 has compatibility layers for the other 2 versions... just got to make sure that it loads first for addons that are older.
Ok, but you have a totally different interface now, do you? So you cannot compare before and after.

What I meant was (this is theory, it will obviously not work in real):
* Case 1
1) The user has 20 addons.
2) He runs them with one framework.

* Case 2
1) The user has the "nearly the same" 20 addons.
2) He runs the same framework.
3) He runs another framework besides.
4) Some adons use the first framework, the other ones the second framework.

Is there an increase of CPU/memory usage?

What I want to show here is if running two frameworks will increase cpu/memory significally if besides we nearly do not have any memory change used by addons (not talking about libs).
pb_ee1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #7
Lastrite
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 141
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

I think Orion is refering to his recent switch to rock-versions of some of his addons (correct me if I'm wrong). So his UI didn't change at all.

He will probably now have Ace2, Rock and Dongle (or another framework) running with exactly the same mod-setup. So the example is quite good actually
Lastrite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #8
OrionShock
Legendary Member
 
OrionShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,787
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

ya nearly all Ace2 and Clique (a dongle base) and a few extras.

tbh the framework is / prolly never be an issue. it is the author. Quality = Quality.
__________________
Author of GuildCraft, SickOfClickingDailies, CursorCooldown, Broken_LFD
WoWAce Addon List WoWInterface Addon List

"I was there in the beginning... and things were very different back then" --An Echo from a time before.
OrionShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #9
Tuller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 497
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Running multiple frameworks isn't a significant issue, except in the case of running multiple copies of heavy libraries because of it. That'll hopefully be resolved with the LibStub move.
Tuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007   #10
Azethoth
Amazing Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,627
Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotOnAStick
...Gains in memory consumption should, theoretically, come mostly from the frame-work agnostic libraries approach. That's a really dodgy thing, though, it's more likely you'll end up with more memory used. If it's not a significant increase, however . . . I don't really care...
Actually I think the frame-work agnostic libraries have the potential for truly huge savings since being agnostic they have a good chance of being used much more widely than the Ace libs ever were.

From the sounds of it the core clashing frameworks are on the order of 20-50k or whatever which is not really worth mentioning no matter how crappy your machine is (while meeting minimum WoW requirements).

So after my initial panic I think we can now settle down for a hard push to keep anything & everything that can be agnostic in its own LibStub(s)
Azethoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:58 AM.