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Old 09-21-2007   #11
shadowed2
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Say it with me.

Static
Memory
Usage
Is
An
Invalid
Stat
Stop
Worrying
About
It

Assuming the person who actually makes a library does there job right and is bumping majors on incompatible changes, chances are you're already running a few copies of the same library anyway and it hasn't been that big of a deal yet. The only time you'd ever have a chance to notice a decrease in performance is if you were running two heavy usage libraries like Parser.
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Old 09-21-2007   #12
ellipsis
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowed
Assuming the person who actually makes a library does there job right and is bumping majors on incompatible changes, chances are you're already running a few copies of the same library anyway and it hasn't been that big of a deal yet.
Um, very few libs have had major version bumps. Devs tend to avoid making incompatible changes because of the hassle.
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Old 09-21-2007   #13
shadowed2
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellipsis
Um, very few libs have had major version bumps. Devs tend to avoid making incompatible changes because of the hassle.
It's not a hassle.

Make the incompatible change
Bump Major

Profit

Takes 5 seconds.
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Old 09-21-2007   #14
ellipsis
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowed
It's not a hassle.

Make the incompatible change
Bump Major

Profit

Takes 5 seconds.
And then there's the compat layer to add to the new version, and all the addon authors who need to be bugged to change their .toc/externals to use the new library, and...
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Old 09-21-2007   #15
OrionShock
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowed
Say it with me.

Memory
Usage
Is
An
Invalid
Stat
Stop
Worrying
About
It

Assuming the person who actually makes a library does there job right and is bumping majors on incompatible changes, chances are you're already running a few copies of the same library anyway and it hasn't been that big of a deal yet. The only time you'd ever have a chance to notice a decrease in performance is if you were running two heavy usage libraries like Parser.
actually it is... for me at least - im running quite a few (100ish) mods... and ya static load on the system is a problem. xpecialy with dual monitors and running FireFox on the 2nd one..

but those memory issues are more the same of Alt-Tab.
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Old 09-21-2007   #16
Tekkub
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowed
Say it with me.

Memory
Usage
Is
An
Invalid
Stat
Stop
Worrying
About
It

Assuming the person who actually makes a library does there job right and is bumping majors on incompatible changes, chances are you're already running a few copies of the same library anyway and it hasn't been that big of a deal yet. The only time you'd ever have a chance to notice a decrease in performance is if you were running two heavy usage libraries like Parser.
Peak memory is immaterial, yes.... but memory consumption rate is a VERY valid performance issue. Don't confuse people with blanket statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellipsis
And then there's the compat layer to add to the new version, and all the addon authors who need to be bugged to change their .toc/externals to use the new library, and...
Which is totally the wrong way of doing embeds. The whole point of majors is to completely separate the new lib from the old one. If old mods use the old lib, yes there is duplicate crap happening, but the old mod needs to be upgraded (or not upgraded in some cases). "Compatibility layers" are crap, either upgrade the old lib and don't break old addons using it, or make a new major that exists in it's own world and doesn't screw with the old addons using the old lib.
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Old 09-21-2007   #17
Industrial
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

like ckknight did with rock... not.
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Old 09-21-2007   #18
shadowed2
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Peak memory is immaterial, yes.... but memory consumption rate is a VERY valid performance issue. Don't confuse people with blanket statements.
I said usage, not gain or consumption. Usage = Total, Gain/Consumption = Memory gain per a second

Even then, it's hard to tell if memory gain is actually due to a performance issue, if you're seeing a large spike or something that continues then you probably have something going on, but it's hard to tell unless you know what addons there running and what they do.
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Old 09-21-2007   #19
Tekkub
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

"Consumption" implies "use", don't play word semantics here :P Users often don't know there is a difference, and simply telling them that "memory use doesn't matter" comes across... well... like KLHTM's dev saying that blizzard's profiler doesn't work and that's why it's numbers for KLH's performance look bad.
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Old 09-21-2007   #20
Aestil
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Default Re: Having several frameworks running at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by tekkub
Peak memory is immaterial, yes.... but memory consumption rate is a VERY valid performance issue. Don't confuse people with blanket statements.

Which is totally the wrong way of doing embeds. The whole point of majors is to completely separate the new lib from the old one. If old mods use the old lib, yes there is duplicate crap happening, but the old mod needs to be upgraded (or not upgraded in some cases). "Compatibility layers" are crap, either upgrade the old lib and don't break old addons using it, or make a new major that exists in it's own world and doesn't screw with the old addons using the old lib.
I'm confused by your blanket statement that compatibility layers are crap? There must be some dev reason for feeling this way? On a practical user side of things, compatibility between major versions is helpful and we like it.

Like the PS2 being backward compatible with the PS, and PS3 being backwards compatible with both of the previous. It seems like it helps transitions.
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